Tim Rowe:
Welcome to Radically Candid, a cognition podcast that takes you behind the scenes with the people, personalities, and perspectives shaping how we think about streaming TV and how we approach solving challenges for agencies who are trying to build an owned and operated ad tech stack. My name is Tim Rowe and today's conversation is with John Stark, VP of Account Management at Cognition and recently retired. We talk all about John's time here at Cognition, how he helped lay the foundation and framework for account management, what it looks like today, and ultimately how to prepare, how to think about a career. John shares some really important life lessons throughout that. So we encourage you to sit back, and enjoy this conversation with John Stark, our retiring VP of account management. Enjoy. John, thank you for laying the groundwork, the foundation for where we're going, where the Cognition rocket ship is headed to. Wish you well on your retirement. Really excited for you in your next chapter. I thought what would be fun for today's conversation is to memorialize some of your experiences. The company has changed. and evolved so much in the time that you've been here. So, we'd love to try and capture that together if you'd be so willing. Down for that?

John Stark: Yeah, absolutely. Awesome. And so, the first thing that comes to me is when I joined the company, Cognition was featured at Amazon's Unboxed event. OK, I don't know if you were aware of this, but is there I remember coming out and they were like part of the main presentation that they had in front of everybody. Like they had the, you know, the top six big agencies and holding groups out there and. Cognition was featured, boom, and you know what they are featured for is dynamic display, OK, and sales matchback. And I find it interesting because when I think about how we pitch and go to market. We might talk about dynamic display. But usually it doesn't ever come up. That's like it's one of those things that are after you kind of get them interested in the value that cognition can provide. They might come up in conversation, but it's definitely not something you lead with. And yet that's what cognition was featured In this amazon unboxed event and i was just thinking man the company has gone so. Far from that point it's quite amazing really because we think about. more than half the products we have didn't exist back then. We didn't have dynamic video. Cartender was not part of Cognition. Trial Flyer, they were not part of Cognition either. So all of the capabilities and opportunities for growth and how we positioned ourselves and go to market have changed completely. We were basically just Amazon media. And we did one fairly one thing unique. And that was the display DCL. We had a lot of people that were familiar with automotive, both Carson and Adam came from company that they both were familiar with automotive marketers and, and how to, how they go to market. And it was a pretty interesting start, but where we're at today has very little to do what we offered back then. And to see that over the course of just two years, and Tim, two years is not that long, the company has grown both in people, technology, the processes that we're using, every single aspect has grown phenomenally. And I think every single person that's currently with the company has been a big part of that. Even if you're just brand new, just bringing out a new person with a new perspective really helps the company tremendously. And they may not appreciate it now, but others around them definitely can tell the difference immediately. So it's, it's a pretty cool thing to experience. I hadn't worked with a startup since I was right out of school in environmental engineering, something totally unrelated. But I forgot how much fun being in a startup environment really is. You get to wear a lot of hats. You're not limited by any bureaucracy or things that used to happen that can't happen in the future because that's just the way we always did it. It's just a lot of fun. If you see a problem, you have an opportunity to go fix it.

Tim Rowe: Yeah.

John Stark: Versus having to do a lot of studies and figure out, well, let's try something different. Let's, let's, let's figure it out together. Just go do it. Just go do it. Just go to, you, you have no constraints on you. Figure out a way to, to come up with a solution. I love that.

Tim Rowe: It definitely attracts the entrepreneurial's heart. I'm curious from your perspective seeing that change so rapidly, obviously some acquisitions that you highlighted there. I think I've heard that kind of universally from different folks on the team that really the last 12 months has been that dramatic acceleration. What drove the change? It would be easy to rest on the laurels of a huge moment in time like Amazon Unboxed. I think that was 2022 or maybe 21. What drove the change to evolve from beyond just really good dynamic display? And hey, we've got this big logo of Amazon behind us. What was the driver of that change?

John Stark: One thing I think the founders really embrace is that whenever they feel comfortable, it's really an uncomfortable situation. So there really isn't an opportunity to really get comfortable. Yeah. We've arrived. Can you think about what are those barrier entries to other companies? And it's not a huge leap. So you got to be one step ahead or moving forward in order to stay competitive in this marketplace.

Tim Rowe: Makes sense. Makes sense. And you were really instrumental in creating the framework for the account management team. I would love to maybe hear your perspective on, you know, where you came from and maybe what expertise and experience that lended to, as you described it, a completely new experience, this startup in advertising. Can you take us on that part of the journey?

John Stark: Yeah, so my account management experience really started with a company called Cobalt Group. I was the only person that they hired, only person in Detroit working on General Motors. And it was a $1 million account for Cobalt. And they were about a $300 or $400 billion company at that point in time. So it was pretty small, but a big opportunity. So I was like the guy in Detroit. That's kind of how they knew me as the guy in Detroit. And so I was fortunate enough to have a great experience with them. And we signed a very large contract. And I had the opportunity to grow a pretty large account team. There were 10 of us in total. And we worked with each individual brand. We worked with the service group up in Grand Blanc. We worked with the agencies of record for each one of those divisions. And it was really where I learned a lot about account management and some of the principles and some of the tools that you use in managing accounts. And I tried to bring some of that. And I also had very formal sales training because it was a large organization. And some of that sales training, I tried to pull the best pieces out and use that when I came to cognition. I think everybody does that in past experiences. You try and pull out the things that were meaningful for you and try and share those with everybody around you. But just trying to add a little bit more rigor around kind of what we should be doing and opportunities to think about things differently that maybe they had different experiences from. And a big part of that was also listening to. because they had experiences that I did not. I was almost 100% focused on OEM and big, really big enterprise deals, where their experience set was more at retail and automotive, and I didn't have any of that experience whatsoever. The only retail experience I had was selling to one of the National Dealer Association dealers and that whole committee about why they should make a big bet with the company I was with at the time. And that's really my limited experience. So I learned quite a bit from the team at Cognition, and I hope that I help others think about the business differently and approach account management differently.

Tim Rowe: What's your like go-to advice for maybe a new account manager, someone who's transitioning into an account management role? What's the John Stark wisdom that you'd give them?

John Stark: I would say that always stay positive and always know that you're probably the smartest person in the room. And it's really important for you to help them become the smartest person in the room. Help them with their business. Help them learn and grow. And it's pretty rewarding to see them take a concept that you help them with and make it work for them. It's a pretty fun and exciting thing to go through. And to see that in a client is pretty cool.

Tim Rowe: You know, you're transitioning into a new chapter, you're retiring. Congratulations on that. Would be curious to hear from your perspective, what's something you hope to see Cognition achieve as you cheer on from the sidelines?

John Stark: Product strategy and where I would like for them to sign a couple deals with public companies. Ooh. AutoNation is the first one. I like that. And it's a pilot. I mean, I would love to see a multi-year enterprise deal with a publicly traded company. I think that is a sign of maturity that really goes a long way. And I know it's going to happen very soon. I think that is pretty amazing. You get to negotiate with a real purchasing department and there's a lot more things that you've got to do when you're doing business with a public company that you don't necessarily do with private companies. So it's pretty exciting. I think would be really neat for the company. I also think that we're going from a marketplace perspective is, is pretty exciting because the added value that cognition is generating through these multiple pieces and parts coming together is a really good story to tell. It makes a lot of sense. And I think there's a lot of people that are trying to crowd the market. And I think we have a pretty unique value proposition that resonates with people that want to see results.

Tim Rowe: I agree. What do you mean when you say crowd the market? What do you see?

John Stark: There's a lot of people joining the marketplace for OTT advertising. Oh, sure.

Tim Rowe: Yeah.

John Stark: Or a lot of people that say, we do that. I think cognition has put itself in a place where, yes, we do that and also a lot more.

Tim Rowe: And also, we want you to own it. We don't want to be your source of truth. We want to enable you to be your own source of truth. And here's some point solutions or a full stack turnkey ad tech solution to manage all of your streaming, TV planning, buying, measurement in one place. shameless plug. It's a pretty strong story. It's a great value, uh, value prop to be able to bring to the market.

John Stark: It is. It is. So I'm a little bummed. I won't be able to help with that, but you did following along.

Tim Rowe: You got us, you got, you got us to, you got us to the place that we're able to, to, I think of it like, like going for the, going for the summit on Everest. Right. It takes teams of people to get to base camp and to get to K2. And it's all a part of it. It's a team climb. It's a team climb. And now we're going to go through, go for the summit. And we couldn't be more grateful for your contributions and helping to get us here, John. Thank you.

John Stark: Thank you, Tim. I mean, the best days are ahead for sure. It is gonna be an exciting ride. And it's fun, it's fun. I've been through a number of organizations that have gone through multiple types of organizational change and growth. And the GM deal, for example, that we signed, it was a $700 million deal. And we had to hire 300 people in 90 days. Wow.

Tim Rowe: This is not cognition. This was – This is not cognition.

John Stark: Okay. Yeah. And so, that change I think is – cognition is on the verge of something big like that where it's a big scare step versus the growth that they've seen so far has been small incremental steps. I think when that big client comes along and they will come along – I should say come along. We will find them and it will be a great relationship. But those kind of stair-step growth opportunities are pretty amazing. You can see the organization change overnight. Lots of problems, but they are really good, fun problems to solve. Because I've also been part of organizations that have shrunk dramatically. And those problems are just as severe, but they're not nearly as much fun to solve.

Tim Rowe: That's a great point. If the problem to solve is fun, if you're having fun solving it, that is a good indicator of you're on the right track. And we are, we're solving fun problems. And we work with great partners who have a, have a vested interest in solving the problems alongside of us. And I think that that It definitely changes the way that you can message, the way that you go to market, but ultimately the way that everyone feels doing business together. No one's being sold to, no one's buying anything. It's, hey, you're trying to solve a problem. We're trying to solve a problem. Let's try to solve that problem together. And if we do it, we're gonna get to stand at the top of the mountain together. And that's a pretty great feeling, so. Worthwhile, worthwhile endeavors. John, thank you so much. Do you care to share? Do you care to tease us with how you might be enjoying some of your time in retirement?

John Stark: Well, right now I am training to be a part-time bus driver. Very cool. pretty fun. But I also have 10 acres of land that there are so many projects that I've been putting off just because I don't have time. So that's one thing. The other thing is my son is a freshman in college. My daughter's a teacher. My daughter's living with us now. This may be one of the last summers where we will all be together in the house and I'll have my summer off. And so I'm really looking forward to that. That will be a pretty amazing time because it goes by super fast. And when I was younger, I traveled a lot. I mean, like gone Monday through Friday for many, many years. And I missed a lot. So anytime I get a chance to spend with my kids, my family is super important. So. I'm really looking forward to that. That should be amazing. Maybe play some golf. Who knows? But I'm going to be, I think I'm going to be really busy, Tim.

Tim Rowe: I think you are. I think you're going to be even busier and it sounds like your, your cup is going to stay full. So God bless you. Congratulations. Well deserved. Thank you again for, for all of your contributions and helping to get us here and for the future generations of cognition who are looking back on this and reflecting on where we once were. John, thank you.

John Stark: Yeah.

Tim Rowe: Start saving early. I started saving when I was a caddy, when I was 13 years old. If you were giving someone advice who's just getting started in the workplace, they see the economy, they see the price of things. What advice are you giving them?

John Stark: Don't ever go into debt. Living debt free is pretty fun and amazing. That's good. I highly recommend it. I recommend. But yeah, just spend less than you make and save as much as you can. My kids, they hate it. They're like I'm the retirement is so far off. Sure, but. I've grilled them enough where they feel like they really don't have a choice. Good, bad or indifferent, they're doing it. So so that's good. And then don't say so much that you're a Scrooge. Enjoy life, have fun, experiences. But the experiences are a lot more important than the stuff. So when you do spend below your means, experiences, not stuff. Stuff goes away. Yeah, I wish I could say the one more thing about account management. Yeah, please ask questions. Ask questions because you can learn a lot from your clients. And if you are talking, that means you're not listening. And if you ask questions, you'll you'll get responses. Good, thoughtful questions and be prepared for their response and ask a follow up question. that that is very helpful. It makes you interested in their business and what they're trying to communicate. And it also helps you along your entire relationship. I mean, it's it really is a relationship, whether it's your personal relationship or business relationship. Yeah. Asking questions. Anticipating a response. and thinking about a follow-up question to ask is pretty good, pretty important in account management and just relationships in general.

Tim Rowe: Since you brought me there, I'm going to prolong the sign-off because I want to double-click into that. It feels like sometimes we know we're supposed to ask the question or the hard question. We don't always have the talk track. We don't always have the framework, or we have the question and sometimes we're just scared to ask it. any open ended questions, styles that you like, any tactical takeaways we can give the listener practice. Practice simple.

John Stark: Every single person that you interact with, you should have in your head. What question am I going to ask them? And then think about how do you think they might respond and then what am I going to ask them to follow up with? Like every single person you should have. What are you going to do if you run into him in an elevator? Like if you ran into, I don't know, the mayor tomorrow, sure. Who you have a relationship with. Is there something you'd want to ask them? And what do you think, what do you think they would respond to that question? And what would you follow up with? It's good. It's a fun exercise to do in not just business, but in your personal life as well. Like question response, follow up question.

Tim Rowe: I like that. I think that's a great way to think about question, response, follow up question. And if we think about that, then it's like, you hear about it in sports, you know, especially football, like, hey, we're going to script the first three plays, right? Like, regardless of what the other team shows us, we are going to run this playbook and then we'll figure it out from there. It seems like you can apply a similar methodology to question asking.

John Stark: And also, since you're thinking about the next question you're going to ask, your first question will be a yes or no question, or a finite question. So when you ask your first question, it's not going to be about the weather, right? It's not going to be a yes or no. Are you having a good day kind of thing? It's going to be more thoughtful. It's going to be more thoughtful. It's going to be thought-provoking, something that will create a conversation. And that's why you're going to have a follow-up question. So the follow-up question is just as important as the first question. So it helps in the creation of that first question. because you're not going to want a yes or no response. You're going to want to start a dialogue.

Tim Rowe: So maybe, maybe, maybe more than just the, you know, here's the first three plays of the game. It's like chess. I'm going to move my pawn here because I expect that you'll respond by moving your Bishop here. And if you do that, then I'm going to do this next thing, which is going to lead me closer to the objective.

John Stark: It's more like the timeout just before the free throw. You're gonna say, okay, Suzy's gonna make this free throw. After the free throw, we're gonna put a full court press. I want to lock him in in the corner. on their end of the court, and I want two people on the point guard. The farthest back we're gonna go is half court. So you script the first one. The first one is kind of like the softball. You're you're telling Susie, you are definitely going to make this free throw. We're not going to spend any more time talking about that. Yeah, I have confidence in your ability to to to make this free throw that builds her up. And she's thinking about what's next.

Tim Rowe: So I love that. Thinking about what's next feels like that's the theme of this conversation, John.

John Stark: Yeah.

Tim Rowe: How about that? Very good. I'm excited to share this with our universe and, uh, and the folks around us. So again, thank you for sharing the experience.

John Stark: I couldn't be happier that I ended my career at cognition. Honestly, it's been awesome.

Tim Rowe: It's so special to be able to be that place for you in your career. And truly the groundwork that you've laid has put us in a better place for it. So thank you.

John Stark: Thank you.

Tim Rowe: Wishing you luck on retirement, John. We'll share this out to everyone in our network and make sure that everyone takes these same lessons away.

John Stark: Okay. Sounds good. Thanks, Tim.