Publicly Candid Kickoff

Ava Hinds 0:00

Hey everyone, it's your host, Ava Hinds, and today we're getting Radically Candid with Bill Schomberg, one of the founding advisors here at Cognition. In this episode, we go all the way back to daylight, what the culture looks like, how the founding team shapes who we are, and what it's been like to watch this company grow and evolve over the years. Bill shares stories about the growing pains, its crisis, and what cognition offers that people don't know about. Whether you're new to the team or just curious about where we came from and where we're headed, this one's for you. Enjoy.

Speaker 1 0:35

Well, welcome to Radically Candid. Uh, I'll have you introduce yourself. How long have you been with Cognition? What do you do?

Speaker 0:43

My name is Bill Schomberg. I was checking my LinkedIn to see how long had I been here. You could say since before the start, meaning I met Adam and Carson, I think it was a digital dealer meeting. But my LinkedIn says I'm two months short of five years with the company itself. And so um I'm an advisor. And one of the questions of what made me want to become an advisor? Yeah, what made you interested? I'm I'm chuckling because I didn't know that it was even a possibility. I had talked to Carson prior to the formation of the company, and he and I had interacted on a couple of subjects. And one day out of the blue, I got an email, and before I could open that email, Carson called me and he said, Have you looked at what I just sent? And I said, No, your call came in pretty quick. And his call was to help explain, hey, you were really helpful in our earlier conversations, and we formed a company, and we'd like to invite you to join us, uh, not as an employee, but in that advisory role. And I guess community is so valuable because as people we don't necessarily see in ourselves what other people see.

Ava Hinds 2:22

Yeah.

Speaker 2:23

That invitation to join them, pretty exciting. I believed completely in Carson as an individual. Carson and Adam, in the people that I had met, meaning we sat in a uh microbrewery and had a two-hour conversation, first time face to face, just so rich and yet not knowing anything about what the future might hold. Right. And so it was really, really I was excited, but I had no idea what I was doing.

Early Vision And Founder Growth

Ava Hinds 2:59

What were those early conversations like? What are they thinking the company would turn into? Do you think today is what they would expect?

Speaker 3:06

No. Really? Without speaking out of school, the one person I haven't mentioned in the early part because I didn't know Matt, not knowing what to expect, they didn't set limitations on their own expectations. I mean, they had a vision and they had worked really hard to come up with what they thought would be a product useful in the arena in which they were already engaged, had some background. And that's the other thing that makes them so valuable together their independent experience, and yet they figured out a way to come together as a team. Because remember, it was just uh at that time there were four founders, one is no longer part of the company, but all of the work, and I don't just mean the practical company work, but also building the team, the relationships with each other, it's the hardest work you'll ever do. Yeah, it is there's there's no my mind goes so many places with relationships because from even before kindergarten with becoming socialized with people, we've all had experiences around why doesn't he like me? Why don't they want to play with me? And those experiences, our experiences form our opinions, and our opinions form our perspectives.

Ava Hinds 4:52

Yeah. And how have you seen cognition change from those early dynamics to now?

Speaker 4:57

They've learned to communicate with each other. I remember uh a conversation, one of the earliest, and as and as a small caveat, I turned 70 in August. And so with my recollection, I'm going from memory, and these aren't things that you know have been discussed. So I hope I'm recollecting well.

Ava Hinds 5:22

Yeah.

DIRT Values And Soil Metaphor

Speaker 5:22

But I remember uh, and it was virtual, we were working remotely, or I was working remotely. The three of them were in uh a house and then a condo and then moving through the stages. But I remember one of the very first conversations among the founders, and then afterwards I was asked, what do you think? And I said, Well, three of you aren't needed. Why is that? Well, whoever would offer any opinion, nobody argued, nobody disagreed, nobody offered a different opinion. So what are the other three viable for? And meaning, I'm not picking on one person, I'm just saying they went around and talked. And here's what's changed today. Disagreement is, it doesn't have to be disagreement, a different opinion is welcomed and rewarded, not in a tangible way, but the engagement in the conversation is so much more powerful because of the different experiences. And no one could have predicted how rapidly the company would expand, grow, except for the environment where those core values are really put into practice daily. Dare, innovate, respect, and trust.

Ava Hinds 6:50

How did those core values come together? Was it early on, or did it kind of come with time?

Speaker 6:56

Um, for a while I didn't even know there were core values. So I I can't speak to that. The I remember in my in me becoming aware of the idea there were core values, wondering how do they come up with those? Because in retrospect, and looking at where we are today, those core values are the foundation of who cognition is as a company. And it's reflected in the people who join. In joining, there's no guarantee that a person will remain a part of the team, but the proof of the power Dare Innovate Respect Trust spells dirt. And I have a uh hashtag that I use in my own life. It's soil, signs of intelligent life. And that's not disrespectful to people, it's it's rare the experience, and yet cognition has that healthy soil. My dad was an ag loan manager for a bank, and so all of his customers were farmers in Nebraska, and fertile soil is not by accident, it's tended, it's changed by the seasons, by the toil of the farmer. And those experiences in my life translate directly into what the leaders and the members of the cognition team do daily.

Ava Hinds 8:35

Right. I was hoping you were gonna talk about soil, because I love that talk track you always give around it. And another talk track that I love that you do is the how cognition is different. I know you always love a telling you hires this of you're joining the most different team you'll ever join. So love for you to talk about that too, why it's hard to find another team like ours.

Speaker 8:57

I'm gonna share an experience that just occurred in my life.

unknown 9:00

Okay.

Speaker 9:01

So 10 years ago, 11 years ago now, a company in the synthetic grass industry hired me to come inside of their company. I had been uh subcontractor for 10 years prior. The first time I met the founder of that company over the years, many times he tried to hire me before inviting me then to come in in a particular role. And uh the role was workforce development, and they created that role because the company was growing rapidly, they were in a real season of that growth. I accepted that, moved to Cincinnati with my wife at the time, and a year later she passed away. You don't predict those things. You you don't know what's going to happen. A week ago, one of the employees who I interviewed and the company invited to join them died of a heart attack. Ten years ago, he joined us. And I was fortunate to be able to attend his funeral. There were over 80 employees of that company who attended his funeral. He was a light. And I got to see and receive some wonderful affirmation text messages after I was there about inviting this young man and an interviewing him in the company, inviting him to be a member of the family. And cognition reflects a completely different environment, or not building synthetic grass fields, we're using data and advertising and technology. And the reason you referenced uh the idea that when I was in a playing role before Alex arrived, who, by the way, is wonderful. Yes, the reason that I would tell every single new hire you'll never ever work for another company like this in your life. It's because I've seen the environment, I've seen the growth, even though it's a completely different industry, you recognize from past experience what you know. It's not deja vu necessarily, but the resemblance is uncanny. That in my life, recognizing it was easy. It doesn't mean it's easy to keep, but the family, because of all of who you are, how long have you been part of cognition? Two years?

Ava Hinds 11:38

Almost two years.

Speaker 11:39

Okay. And you and I had a uh resonant connection around the Montessori school that you attended here in Cincinnati. I did. And so some of the conversations reflect all of those different experiences. And what I try to offer message, communicate, however you want to frame it, is at your age and the age of most of the people who join cognition, who have become members of the family, people may not have a reference point. Saying it doesn't mean they'll understand it, but not saying it ensures they won't have a perspective that can be valuable.

Ava Hinds 12:25

Right. Like you can't have something to compare it to.

Failure As Fuel For Learning

Speaker 12:28

In in my own life, the I've never seen it. I've been so fortunate to work in so many different verticals with great people of all stripes, and the rarity remains. Treasure every second.

Ava Hinds 12:46

Yeah. And then what's something that cognition offers that someone might not realize until they're on the team?

Speaker 12:54

The the opportunity to learn that failure is not bad. When I was married, my wife became a teacher at 51 years of age, went back and got her teaching certificate. And she tried with some success to teach me that one negative takes 10 positives to counteract. 10 positives are needed to counteract one negative. The influence of that perspective in a young person's life is so powerful. And we may not see it, we may not recognize it. Joining a team where failure is encouraged because it's the fastest way to learn. And if anyone knows anything about cognition, the perspective of a rocket ship doesn't even come close. We're going to Mars whether we realize that or not. And we actually have time in our lifetime to get there. I don't know if that's the right metaphor, but that's the one thing that joining cognition reveals. I agree. Can you let go of the idea that failure is a plus, not a minus?

Ava Hinds 14:11

Yeah. Innovating through that.

Speaker 14:13

Can I offer one other perspective? Yeah. To this particular point, I saw a representation of a wall being built, and the bricks were labeled success or failure. And there were way more failure bricks in the wall than there were success. And that's kind of the representation. You're going to fail way more often than you feel the impact of success because it's required. It's not optional. Everybody's going to fail. Learn to overcome the negativity related to the word failure.

Ava Hinds 14:52

Yeah. And going along with failure and everything else, what are growing pains that you and the team experienced early on? And how did you guys overcome and navigate that?

Speaker 15:03

Well, I chuckle because for people who don't know and I don't remember the remote piece has its pluses and minuses. I wasn't necessarily in the daily environments with the founders and the early employees. And so when I say they were working out of a condo, there were pluses and minuses. It was so hot. And so the uh there were other aspects I can't remember in particular, but something about maybe the bathroom facilities, and they quickly recognized that they would outgrow this. And one of the things that you didn't lose the effects of the growing pains, but the company plans way further in advance than most companies. They plan moves and they looked at property and looked at who they needed to hire, meaning not the person necessarily, but what roles were uh were they going to experience. I would say just navigating the rapid growth. And you could say, well, how is that a growing pain? Well, growth, growth is one of two things. It'll cure you or kill you. And that's a business acumen that I've that I reference often. Growth will cure you or kill you. Get ready. I agree.

Ava Hinds 16:39

And I think they've navigated it well with growth because even in the time I've been in here, there's been a lot of growth. So it's been very we just had eight new hires this month alone.

Curiosity And Healthy Discomfort

Speaker 16:52

I kept seeing the announcements, and I'm thinking, wow, I don't know. Have we ever hired eight people in a month? I don't think so. That was incredible. Again, exciting times. I remember in a sometime in the last six months, a conversation. I was asking one of the founders, would you recognize the company today from what the first vision was? And the answer was not even close. No clue. But that's a sign of how dynamic the thinking is. And it's and people listening to this shouldn't be fooled thinking that wow, so smart. It's actually the opposite. So curious. Willing to ask better questions, listen to the answers, talk to customers, all of the aspects of growth. You don't grow unless you stay curious and willing to change. That's the other piece.

Ava Hinds 17:55

I agree. I think I've heard that from so many other people as well, where you have to just be curious in your role if you want to learn and grow and expand.

Speaker 18:04

And the opinions of not just the people in the company, meaning listening in all aspects, everywhere you go, every interaction that you have, understanding things are all related. I referenced community early in the conversation. If you stay in a comfortable community, you limit your ability to grow. It's okay to feel challenged and even more okay to feel uncomfortable. It sounds cliche. Everybody talks about get comfortable being uncomfortable. Well, it's true. It's a muscle that we don't exercise very often.

Ava Hinds 18:43

Yeah. And growth is uncomfortable because we've never been there before. That's something I've learned.

Speaker 18:51

That's a wow. That's my quote. Is that a Heinz ism or is that an Avaism?

Ava Hinds 18:57

I think I found it somewhere. I don't think it's me.

Speaker 18:59

I would love to take credit for it, but there's nothing new under the sun except things we haven't heard previously. Maybe somebody else heard them, but there's the part of the freedom expressing yourself. And you had, in my opinion, the the little bit that I that we know about each other, you had a great experience in the Montessori aspect of not traditional learning. And so you bring a freedom that can help others who maybe didn't have that experience.

Momentum, Mentorship, Real Teamwork

Ava Hinds 19:31

It's all about community and trusting each other, which is another core value we have. So we all work together. What is the opportunity for someone coming in today that the early team didn't have or the first couple of hires didn't have?

Speaker 19:46

There's a momentum that the early employees and the founders built, and the level of trust they needed with each other. I was going to say it was so much higher. I don't know that it was necessarily higher, but it was there's a stronger bond today that tangibly can be felt when a new hire enters the company. And that wasn't something, that was something that the early founders and employees built together. The foundational piece that others can build on. And joining that today, they're still joining the company today, there's still no guarantee someone will be a long-term member of the team. So there's all the doubt, there's all of the, am I doing this right? The mentorship piece that current employees bring to new employees, the willingness. I remember a story that I heard about an interaction in the office one day. We had a new client, and it was a Friday afternoon, and there was a big launch, and there were new people, brand new people joining the company, and everyone recognized the importance of this particular new client and big launch, and everybody pitched in. I may not be relating it well, and I don't know if it's happened more than once, it may have. But this particular piece was a sign of even a brand new employee on that very first day got to see teamwork that everyone's gonna pull together. If there's an issue and you ask for help, that's the other piece. Got to be willing to ask for help if you need it. Nobody's a mind reader. But that story stuck with me because of what they accomplished. It was a big deal in the growth of the company at that particular point. Of course, we get more of those as we continue to. Grow.

Ava Hinds 22:01

Even in my experience as an operations analyst, I witnessed that as well, where even brand new, you try to see how you can help in any way, or even the other way around, new people offering to help. So I think that's still going on, which is really great.

Speaker 22:16

And not surprising.

Ava Hinds 22:18

Yeah, not surprising.

Speaker 22:20

There's a uh book by a man named Craig Rochel. Craig is a pastor, and he wrote a book called It. And this is 10 or 20 years ago, probably closer to 20 years ago. And that the topic of the book was in a faith environment, but it translates into business really well. Because what he was talking about, it was culture. It's elusive, it's one of those things when you walk into a building full of people, you can you get a feeling immediately for is this a safe environment? Because really, to me, that's what culture stands for. How people feel is reflected in how they interact. And if it's a safe environment where it's safe to express a new opinion, something that may contradict what someone else says or thinks, that it is so elusive. And the the way that Craig related that message to me resonates deeply with the environment and cognition. It's a reflection of the core values that were created, but having them does not guarantee that it happens. And the fact that cognition has, through all of the growth and all of the challenging times, as well as the times that we celebrate, maintaining that, and I don't mean you know the word maintenance does not apply. It's a constant effort and accountability and expectation. Without expectations, you can't have accountability. And the fact that cognition continues to have this healthy tension, because there's only two types of tension: one's unhealthy, the other one's healthy. Maintaining that healthy peace doesn't mean there isn't conflict. It doesn't mean that there isn't disagreement. It does mean that people in their communication and their actions demonstrate daily the willingness to be a part of such an amazing team.

Ava Hinds 24:36

Yeah. It's not just talked about the culture here. We obviously act on it.

Hiring For Care And The Unknown

Speaker 24:40

It is walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

Ava Hinds 24:44

I agree. And that's rare to find too. What excites you the most about where cognition's heading?

Speaker 24:51

The unknown. It really is. You know, we have Naughty as the uh mascot. And that starship aspect, we don't know what the future holds and what we will encounter. But the momentum I talked about earlier translates into higher horsepower. How the team was initially assembled and then built upon and continues to maintain that level of momentum, a direct reflection of the hiring process, the interview process. I shouldn't say hiring process, the interview process, selecting, because it's not just the random person who sees a LinkedIn advertisement for an open position. It's knowing enough people who know enough people who know enough people that the message gets out and resonates with the quality of individual we're looking for. Some of it's because of their experience in key parts, but it's also because of who they are as people. May not be fair to ask you this question, Ava, but if you could think of one factor that when people are interviewed, that's looked for in a person, what would you say that one factor is?

Ava Hinds 26:24

Something I always think about, and I remember my first breakfast club with Bill. We talked about this, and it was you can't teach people how to care. People have to want to care. I think it's a really big one. I think that's something that everyone here has, is all of us do care. We're not just here to get the paycheck, then we actually try our hardest every day to make an impact, which I think is also pretty rare. You don't see that a lot in companies.

Speaker 26:52

I love that you captured you can't teach someone to care. You can't. I've never met someone who could teach anybody else to care. But if they care, anything else they need to be part of this amazing company, they can be taught. They can learn. So um you can learn material.

Ava Hinds 27:12

That's something you can teach someone. But actually coming to work every day and wanting to make an impact and caring, you can't teach that.

Speaker 27:20

Exactly.

Ava Hinds 27:22

Well, thank you so much, Bill, for joining me today and talking about culture and everything. This has been a great conversation.

Speaker 27:30

It's an honor to be invited, Ava. I look forward to the next, and I love what you're doing.

Ava Hinds 27:35

Thank you.

Speaker 1 27:37

You too.

Speaker 27:38

Thank you.