Welcome And What You’ll Learn

Ava Hinds 0:00

Hey everyone, I'm your host, Ava Hein, and today we're getting roughly candid with Travis Peterson, product manager here at Cognition. In this episode, we get into what his day-to-day actually looks like. How an idea travels from a client request all the way to live in our platform, the difference between internal and external releases, and why attribution has become one of the biggest players in the industry. He also breaks down the work happening around headless analytics, bulk tools, and stitching together the full customer journey across DSP. Whether you're just curious about product, buying a move into ad tech, or just want to know how it's made, this one's for you. Enjoy. Well,

Travis’s Path Into Ad Tech

Ava Hinds 0:43

hello, Travis. Welcome to Raduct the Candid. I'll start off by introducing yourself, how long have you been at Cognition? What is your journey look like here, and what made you interested working with InProduct?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yeah. Hi, uh Travis Pederson. Been working at Cognition for about the last nine months. Kind of journey has been last 10 years in ad tech and kind of got the opportunity to join Cognition and been really excited to push forward our product. I actually kind of got my degree in product. My degree is technology innovation management. So kind of learned about product in school, and that's kind of what got me want to move into product in my career.

Ava Hinds 1:19

Yeah, I got to first drew you to product. What drew you to the ad tech space specifically?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

That was honestly kind of just got an opportunity to start doing some internships in ad tech and then got my first job in ad tech as a managing advertising. And so really just loved advertising and understanding the digital space and eventually moved from managing campaigns to being a product manager myself.

Ava Hinds 1:40

And then how has that previous experience on the advertising side shaped the way you you think about products now?

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Yeah, I think again, previously being a user, I always kind of put the user in my mind, make sure I want to make their journey as easy as possible and make them not frustrated with the platform or, you know, not want to come back and use it. And again, I think that's just that. And then also, you know, learning all the new tech or the way that you can use digital marketing has just been helpful in thinking about that future.

The Product Manager Day To Day

Ava Hinds 2:06

Yeah. And then what does your day-to-day look like being a product manager at Cognition?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Yeah, day-to-day is again meeting with my devs, making sure the stories that we have for our current projects or epics, you know, and goals that we have being met, meeting and doing some QA and user testing with our users to ensure that what we are building is meeting the specs and that we can push out. And then also making sure that, you know, planning for the future. So what what are we taking in today and what do we need to build for tomorrow? And always thinking about that evolution.

Ava Hinds 2:34

And how has product changed just in the time you've been here?

SPEAKER_01 2:37

In the time I've been here, product's changed a lot. We've gotten a lot more structured, you know, really planning and thinking about those future visions as well as how we can solve client problems today.

Ava Hinds 2:45

I definitely agree. And can you walk us through what the journey looks like from we have an idea from account management or a client or operations to this is live on the platform?

Turning Feedback Into A Roadmap

SPEAKER_01 2:56

Yeah. So again, we get feedback from you know external and internal users. We take in that feedback, see if there's any commonality and see where we can help to, you know, the biggest impact we can make. Sometimes those are small impacts, you know, just one user identifies something, but we realize that it can impact every user. And so again, we take on those little fixes or little updates. Sometimes we see a theme, you know, in those requests, and that's where we kind of see those future visions playing out. And do we really need to redefine the platform or add in some new options to get the users new capabilities?

Ava Hinds 3:25

And then you mentioned do you work with the devs and manage them? How does it work with collaboration between product enablement and the devs?

SPEAKER_01 3:33

Yeah. So again, we bring in product enablement, you know, kind of in that user testing and that in that initial scoping phase. So they're there helping me figure out the requirements, you know, from the users, making sure that they understand them as well. And then once the dev has kind of built that initial shell or scope of the product, that's again where product enablement's coming back and just helping me run through all the use cases and understand how we can sell it. So that way when it rolls out, they can be the most educated and help, you know, sales team or account managers apply those new options.

Ava Hinds 4:00

And then you were saying that products come from client feedback or internal submitting tickets. You're talking a little about the theme. What do you mean by different themes? So, like multiple people having the same idea or issue.

unknown 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

So again, you know, maybe some people are having some problems with customer attribution. And then it's again, maybe their list sizes are too small. And so again, maybe it's going back and thinking about how we can get bigger list sizes, or again, use an aggregated overtime list. You know, so again, you may have a theme of, hey, I'm having an issue getting attribution. Can you kind of figure that out? You know, everyone's having a little bit of a too small of a list. So again, we need to figure out how we can get that bigger, broader list, or again, let that list grow over a few months so we can do that attribution. So that's what I would say with themes is again, you kind of see people asking, maybe ask it in a different way, but it's all kind of related to that, you know, attribution or again that list size being a little too small.

Ava Hinds 4:51

Yeah. So you kind of take these ideas, group them together, and like solve a bigger problem.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah. Too much.

Ava Hinds 4:57

Yeah.

Internal Releases Vs External Launches

Ava Hinds 4:58

Is there a different mindset between an external or an internal release?

SPEAKER_01 5:02

For an internal release, we definitely may, you know, let the users do some user testing, but then also, you know, let them see that product or that feature a little bit early. Whereas if it's external, we're gonna want to make sure that all of our you know users are aware of what's coming. We're not finding the new features without being aware of them. So that's again where we may, you know, be a little bit more showing of what our product release is in the external release, detailing those new features. Whereas internal, we may just here's the new item, you know, it's available. Let's think about what else other ways we can use it. You know, let us know if you think that it can be expanded.

Ava Hinds 5:35

And then along with the external thing, how do you balance speed to market with getting the product right? So I know the market's changing a lot. Do you guys also feel that as well?

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Yeah, I mean, digital marketing space is kind of evolving all the time, you know, changing, whether it be privacy or DSP partners or again, new items that you can get out there. So it's kind of looking at how those things fit into the overall goal and the vision and whether they're really helping us push forward. So again, you know, maybe there might be a little change, but again, we see it as not as an incremental but not fundamental shift. And so do we really need to incorporate that? Or again, maybe a client needs it to help support their goals, and so we'll bring it on for those reasons. But you know, always looking at those new items and understanding how they fit in the overall vision for cognition.

Ava Hinds 6:21

Yeah. Do you have any examples of that or anything or something that is your other work on right now that maybe you fell like need to get out sooner?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

Again, one thing that we're working on right now is trying to do attribution within, you know, Google on the Google environment, not just within, you know, Amazon. So again, expanding the DSP partners where we can do that sales attribution. That's again, you know, one thing that figuring out the sales list and you know the differences between Amazon and Google is taking a little time, but you know, really trying to push that and make that available, you know, make sure that we can offer clients, meet them where their needs are.

QA That Catches Edge Cases

Ava Hinds 6:53

And then you talked a little bit about the QA process. Can you walk me through that just a little bit more of how long does it take usually? What goes into it?

unknown 7:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:01

So again, you'll normally create some basic unit tests to check the code. And then you'll again, you know, have some users run through some happy path flows, you know, a few edge cases. So again, what's happening most of the time, you know, what are a few users maybe veering off to, you know, but again, still using it. Just making sure that all those edge cases, and if there's anything that weird is happening, oh, I I tried to use it this way and this bug came up. And it's like, well, maybe the tool wasn't designed that way, but it could be used that way. And so again, trying to make sure those things are kind of released before they would go to those external users, kind of back to your earlier question.

Ava Hinds 7:32

And then how many people usually are on the QA, like a few at a time or just different devs?

SPEAKER_01 7:37

Yeah, uh, so again, devs will do the initial like code and and those QAs, and then after that it's kind of again product enablement coming in, and you know, so they'll get maybe you know a shell or again a dev environment of the new UI. They'll kind of do some happy path to what the operations or the external clients would be doing themselves. And that's again where we can partner and be like, hey, I tried to use it this way, but again, this bug came up and we need to fix that before it goes out to you know the broader clients.

Ava Hinds 8:01

And then you said you love product because you know, being a user and you kind of having that experience. What makes a great campaign management experience? And what do you think the platform's still far short on that you guys want to expand on?

SPEAKER_01 8:14

Yeah, I think again, a good campaign management experience is being able to understand what you want to accomplish with your campaigns and then push those out quickly. And then again, you know, if look at how the campaign has been performing and be able to make changes as needed. So I think again, one thing that we've been looking at is how can we develop some more bulk tools or again get users to be able to operate more efficiently and quickly and maybe not have to do things as repetitively as they may have to do today.

Ava Hinds 8:41

Yeah,

Attribution And The Privacy Shift

Ava Hinds 8:42

doing more in bulk. And then what's the most significant shift you see in the advertising industry and how has it changed what product teams need to prioritize?

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah, I think one of the biggest shift I've seen is again the privacy and again trying to do user attribution or customer attribution to the levels that you can. Attribution is really a big player in the industry now. You know, eight years ago it was click attribution, but now it's actually getting down to user attribution. So I think that's again one thing is understanding all the different ways that you can do user attribution, the levels of data that you can get at. And then how does that come back into a unified report so you can understand, you know, how it's impacting the whole customer journey? And that's again tying, you know, Google or Amazon or you know, the trade desk together. That's again where I think I've seen the biggest shift is people try to accomplish those goals.

Ava Hinds 9:28

And then by attribution, you're also meaning like about the hat tag, stuff like that too. Yeah. So how is that kind of expanding more? The like I know we I talked a little about Alex Bronker about it, where with hat they're trying to expand more and hat's gonna be a huge thing with us. So do you want to talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah. I mean, again, hat kind of goes into how I'm working with, you know, DV and Amazon because we do attribution within those platforms, but sometimes you need a way to stitch together that client journey. And so hat's really kind of helping us understand, you know, maybe the impacts between those different platforms, some of those different devices. Whereas, you know, within Google and Amazon, we're using their clean rooms to, you know, do some of that customer attribution from the sales lists. But that's yeah, I think Hat is going to be integral. It's gonna help, it's gonna make sure that we can understand that whole customer journey and, you know, help us talk to those DSPs and do that attribution as well.

Breaking Into Product Management

Ava Hinds 10:18

What advice would you give to someone trying to break into product management or the ad tech space?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Product management and ad tech, I'd say be curious. Again, it's always changing. And I think I I see the people who are curious, maybe they identify a problem, but then they go upstream or downstream to understand why that problem happened is again a big thing that I've seen really helps people, you know, move from maybe being that analyst to product enablement or then eventually a product manager. So again, I think being curious and just trying to maybe look as much as you can. I mean, you don't have to spend all your time, but just again, be curious and try to go up and downstream to understand, you know, full causation or issues that might be impacting yourself today.

Ava Hinds 10:56

Totally agree. Being curious is definitely a big one. And then what's one thing that you're working on that you're excited about? And then you talked about the attribution and headless analytics, but is there any other products that you're excited about within the suite?

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Yeah, I think again, just trying to make sure that our campaign management and other things are easily usable, adding in the bulk features. I think again, attribution is a big one. It's gonna, it's you know, it's gonna be crucial for us to continue with, you know, offering more media. But I think again, within that, how does those two platforms integrate within our management, campaign management? So it's again kind of how does everything get easier for the user to activate media and understand what the media is doing?

Who Owns What On The Team

Ava Hinds 11:37

Just out of curiosity, what do you work on and what does like Aaron work on? And how do you guys work together?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So Aaron was again more ad-serving and like creative studio.

unknown 11:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I I'm kind of more like campaign management platform. So again, think of like the cognition platform and then how do we connect to our DSP partners? So again, how do we connect to Amazon DSP? How do we connect to AMC? So I work a lot with like call in and them in terms of like the back-end stuff and some of the front end stuff, but not that much in terms of like, do we have our own ad server? Do we have our own like Creative Studio? That's kind of again where those things integrate to the flows that I build, but they aren't like the pieces that I own, if that makes sense.

Ava Hinds 12:14

And then what does a full stack developer do?

SPEAKER_01 12:16

Uh, just out of curiosity, also, just again, they're doing front-end and backend. So again, you know, writing how the system's operating, but then they can also do that front end, you know, UI tweaks, UI build. So again, it's really nice to have that full stack developer who can complete a whole story, you know, not just do the back end code or the you know the front end code, but be able to do all of the design as well.

Ava Hinds 12:36

Yeah,

Final Thanks And Sign Off

Ava Hinds 12:37

it's kind of the difference between the engineering of it all.

unknown 12:40

Yeah.

Ava Hinds 12:40

Yeah. Well, awesome. Thank you so much, Travis, for explaining all of this. It definitely is really good to know. I was really curious about a lot of this.

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, no, thank you for having me.

Ava Hinds 12:51

Of course. Um bye.